October 22, 2010

Pete Rose to the Hall of Fame: "Don't Wait 'Til I'm Dead"

Mark your calendars...because this is going to be the first, last and only time these following phrase will be uttered. 

I wish I lived in Clifton, Ohio right now.

You see, this weekend marks the initial run of the documentary "4,192: The Crowning of the Hit King"...the story of Pete Rose's chase of the all-time hit record.  I dig Rose, remember the countdown to the milestone vividly and would love to see 1985 baseball up on the big screen.

Oh...and I'd like to see "Charlie Hustle" in the Hall of Fame.

Recently, Cincinnati Enquirer reporter John Erardi caught up with Rose...talked about the movie, the current state of the Cincinnati Reds and, of course, Cooperstown.

"I would hope that I'd get a second chance. Don't wait 'til I'm dead," Rose told Erardi.  "The Hall of Fame is for family and friends. I'd like to get up there in front of them."

You can read the entire interview over at Cincinnati.com...click HERE and check it out!

And if you're one of the lucky to actually be near Clifton this week, you can check out the Esquire Theatre and showtimes for "4192" HERE...then let me know how the movie is.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

Pete's head will have to be preserved in one of those jars like they use on Futurama for him to have any shot of seeing his plaque in Cooperstown.

Anonymous said...

We need to all get over it, Pete Rose should be in the Hall Of Fame, lets face it.

Anonymous said...

it dont matter what he did you cant take away his records he aint the only 1 that done that

Les said...

Put Pete Rose in the hall of fame--all he did was gamble,he didn't kill dogs because they couldn't fight good enough.

Anonymous said...

I'm so sick of all these players that think they deserve to be lauded for their accomplishments but have compromised their moral compass. Hey Pete, I bet you thought the rules don't apply to you either. You should have thought about all this before you were placing all those bets. What you did WAS ILLEGAL. Stop whinning, you did this to yourself.

programdan said...

He hasnt been kept out because of what he did. And what he accomplished and/or his records arent the issue. It was his behaviour through and afterwards. admitting partial guilt then retracting. bad mouthing the league. claiming he was somehow the victim being persecuted. He had a chance. He got caught, and if he wouldve owned up to what he did, was forthcoming, and was repentent, he would already be in the HOF. He was a jerk, he thought he was above everything and his apologizes even now sound hollow. he believes he is above it. let him die then put him in. if he is allowed to give a speech im sure he will make an a$$ out of himself further by further bad mouthing baseball.

Anonymous said...

THESE UNFORGIVING HYPOCRITES.The best hitter in history belongs in the HOF. He made a mistake and paid for it . Case closed.I'd like to examine and investigate these saints who are keeping Rose out. No talents , showing THEY have poor character.

Anonymous said...

Pete sorry you broke the rules live with it there alot of players who should be in the Hall of Fame and are not you where a good player you hustled but you screwed up .

Anonymous said...

Im not a hypocrite. My arguement isnt because im a saint. He paid for it? really how? Part of paying for a mistake, little boy, is admitting what you did, in its entirety and then asking for forgiveness. You dont pay for a mistake by claiming, for 20 years no less, that you somehow are the victim. then bad mouthing everyone from the commissioner to anyone who would question you about YOUR mistake. He still isnt taking responsiblity for HIS mistake. grow up, Pete made his bed......only way to get out of it now is to get up and then make his bed.

Anonymous said...

Pete played ball like no other individual in the past or any in the future. He was no rocket scientist, but he played the game his way....What he did was wrong, and obviously he had a hard time admitting it,,but it's over. It is time to pay him his do respects...Hall of Fame is where he belongs...He played the game.

Anonymous said...

The Hall of Fame is for accomplishments on the field...not off. It's membership should be gauged solely on the individuals skills of playing the game. There are many sports stars who have done the same and much worse and it's not going to go away. Getting a D.W.I. or a Drug Arrest or Rape Charge should also merit the same type of punishment that Pete has received. It doesn't. Those guys get a 4 game suspension and or a fine or at the worse a short stint in prison then are allowed back in the game (i.e.-michael vick).Do the right thing and give the guy the place in the Hall he deserves. His record may be the most untouchable in the game. Too bad for him he got caught...I wonder how many in the Hall didn't?

Anonymous said...

so does mcguire and all the other dope fiends make it to the hall of fame .................PETE was and will always be the king ...and by the way no steroids either shame on you cooperstown

Anonymous said...

He bet against his team when he was a player manager. You want to let that slide?? I don't think so.

Chuck Paul said...

One of the ten best players of all time belongs in the hall of fame, no question.

cestne said...

I am sure I am not the first to say it and not the last. Athletes are just that, athletes. In the majority they were born with amazing talent not with wisdom. They are entertainers, should not be held to a moral code that almost no one can live up to. Rose in fact was born with limited talent. He worked his way to his success. No one would ever have found anything out if he had not worked so hard and set a high performance standard. He is and was always a difficult personality, you loved him or hated him. What happened with Fosse is an example of a guy who acted first too often and thought later. I really wonder if we held all the owners and bureaucrats, almost all well educated and coming from privileged back rounds to the standard we want to hold jocks to how they would hold up!!!!!

Jesus Melendez said...

Thanks for the discussion, fellas. But let's not get confuse things.

According to the Dowd Report, which, combined with Rose's own confirmations, is all we can go by Rose...bet on the Reds to win while as a manager.

You hear me?

Not as a player. And never AGAINST his team.

ALSO...the Hall of Fame is willingly upholding MLB's suspension, but they are not obligated to. Basically, if the NATIONAL BASEBALL Hall of Fame (not the MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL Hall of Fame) wanted to put Rose up for vote...they could and Bud Selig would have no say.

Jesus Melendez said...

Now, I just wrote that first comment, only to contradict it (sorta) with this one:

Rose is in, no question, clear violation of the Hall of Fame "character clause". That said...who else within the halls of Cooperstown aren't already?

Discuss.

Dave Sullivan said...

"Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."

Anonymous said...

Wow cestne, you really are a confused individual. Someone has tried to hold rose to high moral code? really whats that? dont break the rules, if you do break the rules admit. learn from your mistake and dont do it again, definitely dont try to get out of it by first half admitting what you did then lieing and saying you only said that to get out of the trouble that you got into then never fully admitting what you did, then bad mouthing the very instituion you claim to want to belong to. rose is the very best example of someone only saying he is sorry, because he got caught and he now wants something more. thats a high moral code? thats a moral code that almost no one can live up to? are you f'ing crazy, my dog can live up to that moral code. wow thats a high moral code no one can live up to, if you get caught admit it, show remorse, try to make better what you did. wow thats incredibly high. it would be amazing if anyone could live up to such a lofty goal. I hate it when people attack others on boards like this, but buddy you are stupid and shouldnt be allowed to own a computer.

Bill said...

If you think Pete Rose was the best hitter of all time, I question whether you have ever seen a baseball game. But anyway.

The Hall of Fame is for accomplishments on the field...not off. It's membership should be gauged solely on the individuals skills of playing the game.
Wrong. As Jesus noted, there's the character clause. Also, what Rose did wasn't "off the field" the way a DUI is. He's out because what he did seriously (and in a much more direct and serious way than PEDs) compromised the integrity of the game. You can't separate gambling on the game and his "on-the-field" accomplishments. Part and parcel.

One of the ten best players of all time belongs in the hall of fame, no question.
I'd argue that ALL the ten best players of all time belong in the Hall, but that's true only because Pete isn't even close to being one of them (you might squeeze him in to the top 50 or so). If he were better than Babe Ruth, that wouldn't do a thing to change the fact that he doesn't belong or the reason why he doesn't.

According to the Dowd Report, which, combined with Rose's own confirmations, is all we can go by Rose...bet on the Reds to win while as a manager.
Actually, there's plenty of evidence that he did more than that (even if not, is the idea that he was squeaky clean in 1986 and a degenerate addict in '87 in any way even a little believable?). But anyway, isn't betting on the games as a manager worse? You've got a lot more of an opportunity to affect the outcome of the game as a manager. Even if you're really just betting on your team to win, you're giving yourself all sorts of competing incentives (assuming you don't put the same $$ bet on your team to win every single day) that don't have anything to do with the spirit of the game. More to the point, betting on baseball at all as a player or manager is and always was against the rules, the punishment for which was a permanent ban from the game.

ALSO...the Hall of Fame is willingly upholding MLB's suspension, but they are not obligated to. Basically, if the NATIONAL BASEBALL Hall of Fame (not the MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL Hall of Fame) wanted to put Rose up for vote...they could and Bud Selig would have no say.
People try this one all the time, and I think it's just hilariously silly. The primary purpose of the Hall of Fame is to celebrate the careers of the greatest MLB players. Isn't it just common sense that the Hall wouldn't want to celebrate one of the handful of people in the game's history that have done something so bad that MLB has decided it doesn't ever want to see them in a uniform again? Seems kind of like a no-duh to me.

I'd almost be tempted to put him in just so we can stop hearing about him and more or less forget about him, as he deserves. But, no, I like the Hall too much for that.

Jesus Melendez said...

Glad to see Bill join the fray.

The primary purpose of the Hall of Fame is to celebrate the careers of the greatest MLB players.

They why enshrine Negro Leaguers and celebrate the professional women's league? I'm playing the devil's advocate here...but both groups were, essentially, not recognized by Major League Baseball and the Hall of Fame has gone out of its way to include them.

Why not Rose?

And yes, I know that the BBWAA and Vets Committee have voted to exclude those ineligible...but why not put Rose in and have a display explaining his banishment.

Imagine the traffic that would come through Cooperstow to see it! Haha.

Bill said...

I mean, I appreciate the effort, but I don't think there's even a discussion to be had there. If Pete Rose were to go into the Hall, it would be entirely because of his accomplishments as a player in Major League Baseball. And being "not recognized" by MLB (whatever that means--MLB recognizes the hell out of those leagues, especially the Negro Leagues, when there's a promotional opportunity) is very different from being expressly recognized as unworthy of having anything to do with MLB. I don't think those analogies do anything at all.

Jesus Melendez said...

If Pete Rose were to go into the Hall, it would be entirely because of his accomplishments as a player in Major League Baseball.

Exactly. Whoever would suggest otherwise is a fool.

And being "not recognized" by MLB (whatever that means--MLB recognizes the hell out of those leagues, especially the Negro Leagues, when there's a promotional opportunity) is very different from being expressly recognized as unworthy of having anything to do with MLB.

It took baseball 50 years to recognize Jackie Robinson...longer for the Negro Leagues. And if it wasn't for Penny Marshall...who would know that women played baseball?

I say let Pete in. As a player...obviously.

Bill said...

This conversation seems to have completely lost its way. I really don't know what you're saying here (since I refuse to believe you're comparing Pete Rose to the Negro Leaguers).

It took baseball 50 years to recognize Jackie Robinson
By "recognize," you mean "do a special 50-year-commemorative publicity stunt that is unlike anything they've ever done for anybody else"? That's a pretty high standard. Not that he doesn't deserve every bit of it, but Jackie has been about as recognized by baseball as anybody can be recognized by anything.

Anyway, I really don't know what you're saying. He had a Hall-of-Fame quality career as a player, but also did something that seriously threatened the integrity of the game and that he knew carried a punishment of permanent ineligibility, something the Hall has very reasonably decided should also mean ineligibility from itself. I don't think there's any serious argument at all for putting him in the Hall given all that, but if there is one, I'm very sure that Jackie Robinson and the All American Girls' league have nothing at all to do with it...

Jesus Melendez said...

First off, by continuing to call everything a "publicity stunt" or "promotional opportunity"...I think you're discrediting the efforts rather than supporting them. Stunts are used to get asses in the seats or eyes on your product. Typically, they are to do just that...not actually, to genuinely celebrate something.

But let's digress...so you might be able to understand what I am saying.

Bill...you said:

The primary purpose of the Hall of Fame is to celebrate the careers of the greatest MLB players.

I said:

Then why enshrine Negro Leaguers and celebrate the professional women's league?

I was playing the devil's advocate.

The National Baseball Hall of Fame has gone out of its way to be inclusive of leagues OUTSIDE of solely the Majors. And since that is the case, why not abolish their adopted rule of not allowing those made ineligible by MLB...and let Rose in? As a player.

My point is this.

If they are going to honor leagues other than the Majors, why not stick to their character clause and say THAT is why Rose is not eligible...instead of hiding behind MLB's ineligible list?

Or...put Rose on the ballot. He gets less than 5%...he's off.

Then...there's no question.

Jesus Melendez said...

And Bill, I get what you're saying and deep down...I think you know what I mean as well.

Bill said...

Yes, the cynicism with regard to the publicity stuts is 100% intended. But anyway.

That's not the part I didn't get. I totally got that, and totally responded to it. It's your response to my response that left me scratching my head. I have no idea at all what the thing you said about Jackie Robinson and Penny Marshall has to do with Pete Rose.

But this, again, is my point: Pete Rose was a Major League Baseball player. All of Pete Rose's accomplishments were in MLB, and the reason for keeping him out is because he shamed MLB. There's no reason to put him in the Hall, and that the Hall of Fame sometimes features or honors people other than MLB players is totally irrelevant. "We sometimes include people who aren't MLB players at all, so why not also include people the MLB has specifically decided are unworthy of having anything to do with the game?"... It's not really playing devil's advocate, IMO, because I don't think it really adds up to a coherent argument anyone could seriously make.

Jesus Melendez said...

I have no idea at all what the thing you said about Jackie Robinson and Penny Marshall has to do with Pete Rose

Blame it on the internet, Bill...and the fact that sarcasm gets lost in the shuffle.

But this, again, is my point...

I know what your point is and respect it.

But please stop with the "the Hall of Fame sometimes features or honors people other than MLB players is totally irrelevant" when you previously brought the "the primary purpose of the Hall of Fame is to celebrate the careers of the greatest MLB players" to the dance.

To me, that is contradictory. You can't exclude people based on their MLB ineligibility when you include people who never suited up.

How to solve that...exclude Rose based on the "character clause" or put him on the ballot. Dude won't get the 5%...then we don't have to worry about it anymore.

Bill said...

You're creating an inconsistency that just isn't there at all. The primary purpose of the Hall IS to honor MLB players. Yeah, they sometimes honor other people, and there's nothing inconsistent about that. However, honoring a person who WAS an MLB player, and who did something so bad that he was banned from the game forever, would be not only inconsistent but antithetical to the whole (primary) purpose of the institution. It's a difference between, on the one hand, doing things that AREN'T your primary purpose (an exhibit for the women's league), and on the other, doing something that VIOLATES your primary purpose (putting Rose in).

And you already touched on the problem with making it the character clause alone -- lots of guys would fail that. I'd rather remove the character clause entirely, and keep Rose out based on the fact that he broke a rule that got him permanently banned from the game, recognizing that it's just plain old common sense that it would be crazy to put him in the Hall that's there to celebrate that same game.

Jesus Melendez said...

So you don't like my "Banned from Baseball" exhibit?

Agree to disagree?!? Haha.